| User | Post |
Chibi-Bar
Moderator
 
   
  
 
 
Since: 04-16-02
Rating: 10 (400 pts)
Since last post: 7459 days
Last activity: 7416 days
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my g/f worked on some 3D stuff.. but probably cannot get her to make stuff ^^; I myself a designer.. I have tons of ideas to make a game.. my friend and I are working on an idea for a single player type game first 
baby steps... baby steps
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Chibi-Bar
Your Local Merchant on Chaos/Loki |
Akute Psyko
 
Since: 06-05-02
From: CA, USA
Since last post: 7959 days
Last activity: 8005 days
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yea.. i was working on an RPG with 4 other people...
we had a whole storyline.. and plot made...
and i was gonna make cinematics too...... but we all got lazy and abandoned the project.... =D my friend wanted to sell it on Ebay... hahah...
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-Akute Psyko |
MingShun
 
Since: 05-10-02
Rating: 10 (400 pts)
Since last post: 7415 days
Last activity: 7415 days
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I don't have much experience in programming and modelling. Since I can't program good code, nor make good chars...I offer my congrats. Good luck on your project, it has a lot of potential!
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Light Hawk and Antoni Serang. Who has what job? |
Toshax
Since: 04-30-02
From: US East Coast
Since last post: 8001 days
Last activity: 7936 days
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if you need any good texture work I can help you there as I've done plenty of maps (all the textures) for several dif. halflife mods and even halflife itself.
contact me at hhenigmae@hotmail.com |
milkrock
 
Since: 05-22-02
From: Vancouver, WA
Since last post: 7611 days
Last activity: 7611 days
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Sorry but I'm diffintly not gonna have time for those models. I have a trip planned to mexico soon and I'm pretty much stretched for time as it is. Luckily it seems liek you have a few other artists. I would still love to help if I get the time. Maybe while I'm in mexico as I do have two months and I'm bound to get bored of the country eventualy. I will be taking my computer and getting an isp while im there. If your ever in need of a quick fix or job and people are too busy working on new stuff or whatever I will gladly do that. Send me an email when you have time we'll talk about stuff I can do for you. - ramiro@milkrock.net
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"Everytime I think People get as dumb as possibly their idiots scientist come up with new ways of being stupid" - Gabriel (www.penny-arcade.com) |
pragma7
 
Since: 04-26-02
From: USA, NJ
Since last post: 7838 days
Last activity: 7851 days
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Hey, I havn't heard anything in a while, does anyone have anything yet? Let me remind you that this is a serious project, and I'd like to get to Alpha stage within 2 months. However, If I don't have your support this will be impossible. I can do the graphics and sound myself, yes...but that's not my forte, and it would take me an incredible amount of time. Perhaps if we decided to use 2D sprites for the characters/objects, would that make it easier? Keep me posted guys, I have my shell, but it's empty without media...
Rob |
Beast
 
Since: 06-08-02
Since last post: 8000 days
Last activity: 8000 days
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| 2d Sprites are much harder to do.. they'll really set you back years without enough people, but look so much more amazing at the end. I'm interested to see how the engine runs... that's all really. I'm unfortunately not really interested in helping without some sort of idea of how the game works, code wise, and how it .. y'know.. just "feels". I have some experience in 3d landscape/environment creation and animation, as well as some 3d modelling and animation experience.. much much more in a year or so... but pure coding is always my main objective. Contact me if you want. I'd like to talk to you. |
Sironin
 
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 7941 days
Last activity: 7625 days
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about 2d vs 3d for character models....
I vaguely remember hearing about a tool awhile ago. I don't remember the name, it must have been a plugin or standalone or something. Basically what it did was take your 3d model and take the angle it was at and render it so it was flat and from there it was either another plugin or part of the same one that made it 'spritey' looking....
It basically made the process of 'creating' sprites amazingly easy... pop in 3d model, move to position one, smack render button, done position1. move to position2, smack render button, move to position3, smack render button... etc, etc, etc....
anyone else recall seeing anything like that? There's gotta be a developer tool like that out there somewhere... I guess having said all that I should look -.- |
Beast
Since: 06-08-02
Since last post: 8000 days
Last activity: 8000 days
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| I wouldn't be surprised if it existed. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if the end product ended up looking very.. primative.. and.. well... bad. It might be possible, but all the successful 2d sprite games have hand drawn graphics. However that may be a temporary solution until artists can be hired. |
Aden
 
Since: 06-08-02
From: USA
Since last post: 8001 days
Last activity: 7967 days
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Well being a sprite artist myself, I could say that there are simpler ways of making sprites, but it definately all depends on the artistic level of the person making them. What I usually do for positions is use flip images of sides with slight adjustments (I'm not so lazy as to merely leave bandoliers switching sides if they are on one in specific), and front and back with bits of editing here and there (for obvious reasons).
The major problem I'd have with using a 3D modeler for 2D sprites (if uh, that's what you mean, I'm sort of out of it  ) would be... the "nasty" factor of them. Truthfully, 3D modeled and textured graphics look like garbage done in things like Bryce or Poser -- perhaps using 3D studio max with all models from scratch would look better, but slapping a disgusting Bryce or Poser image onto a model and then flattening it, would, in my opinion look quite distasteful. Gaudy even.
Your best bet is to NOT take the shortcuts of 3D modeling if you're going for 2D sprites. Personally, I dispise 3D as I feel it doesn't take the energy and soul that gorgeous 2D work does, basically because everything is more or less done for you. Of course, that's not the point here I guess, but from my artistic perspective, I'd have to say that exceptional 2D is far better than "I tried" 3D.
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"Moron..." -Solid "Pliskin" Snake |
Sironin
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 7941 days
Last activity: 7625 days
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Well Aden, let me put to rest some of your fears that any professional quality work might ever come out of Bryce or Poser. They wouldn't. Anyone, with any sense, in the industry KNOWS they're garbage and passes over them like the crap they are. Frankly 3d studio max isn't too much better. There are actually one or two free programs that are a little bit better (i.e.: more stable, just as good) and also one or two SUPER expensive ones used by studios and the people who are contracted for the really expensive stuff. (of the free ones, I recall one was japanese and one was english, their may exist others but the two I recall were on par with max, having tried max).
The point about using a 3d model is that you can reuse it to do the many, many movements your sprite will have to take. That and you can also create varying resolution quality versions of each sprite very effortlessly (once the model is finished). From a quick glance at RO's sprites, they have 150-250 sprites for each character class, not counting interchangable heads, interchangable weapons and various other effects that might be class specific (specific spell effects and such related to the class). This is likely why things like Dye take so long. It may not have been possible for them to simply implement a color swap and they had to make additional sprites for each color (ballooning the required sprites times the number of colors for each class).
Are the characters being designed more or less flexible? Can they jump (more sprites)? Can they only stand around (a lot less sprites)? Can they walk AND run (additional sprites)? Is there an inbetweener in sitting down (more sprites)? Turning a full circle, how many sprites(4, less 8, average, 32 more)?
Anyway, just some food for thought... It's not really all that simple. |
Aden
Since: 06-08-02
From: USA
Since last post: 8001 days
Last activity: 7967 days
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Oh yes, I'm quite aware of the ease and movements, and reuse of 3d modeling to do sprites, but my point was simply that I would never use them. I'm also aware of the craptasticness of Bryce and Poser, and I'm not a fan of 3d studio max either, it was just a noticeable fraction better than the others. The problem is, without a good amount of funding and such, anyone who doesn't have the sponsorship of a well-off establishment isn't going to get anything BUT the crap. I was referring more to this particular topic, an amateur attempt at creating a game isn't going to drag in the big buck corporation expenditures on good programs, and sometimes finding the others can be difficult for people who aren't aware of the places to look.
You take what you can get after all.
Depending on the quality of what I am doing, my animations will run anywhere from 20-60 individual frames per second for each category such as jump, walk, run, and in between sitting down, circles, etc. Sizes vary of course, depending on the kind of project I am doing. More often than not, they do take longer than they would with 3d modeling, I do believe I went into that without the long winded explainations, but it is not difficult to create fluid animation sequences with hand drawn graphics, that much I know. I have done them, after all Most of my work is done for web page animations, usually small, but occasionally I will be forced to make Ragnarok-Sized animations with a lesser framerate (Due to memory and time constraints for loading only). I've worked with pseudo-3d environs with my sprites as well for friends. So I know how long it takes. Trust me. I do these sort of things for commissions.
It may not be simple for some people, but for me it is. :: shrugs:: Each to their own.
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"Moron..." -Solid "Pliskin" Snake |
pragma7
Since: 04-26-02
From: USA, NJ
Since last post: 7838 days
Last activity: 7851 days
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Well, I considered 2D vs 3D, and my major concern was finding artists. We would need quite a bit more time to put the game together useing 2D sprites, and also the sheer size of the game would be bigger. I'm running some tests right now on game speed, and about how much "quality" the engine can handle useing 3D for the landscapes and characters, etc. So far the results have been great. The only downside is the initial loading time (pre game, loading graphics into memory, etc.). Once I have some models/textures to work with, I'll put together a small (very small) demo so you can all see what we're working toward. This isn't small time, mark my words. I plan on crushing Ragnarok like the bugs they are  . Sasami, I hope, will help once the game is ready for alpha by finding loop-holes, etc. So let's get busy guys, get me a couple models, I'll give you a demo. Remember the theme, think futuristic madrigal.
Rob |
Akute Psyko
Since: 06-05-02
From: CA, USA
Since last post: 7959 days
Last activity: 8005 days
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altho i sorta agree with the Bryce and Poser thing... ive seen some really amazing things done with Bryce... images that look more real than real life... =D but since this is a game, we not really leaning towards too much realism...
I've been using 3DS Max... but if anyone knows of anything better... wanna gimme some names? i can usually get the program one way or another, and you can never have too many art programs... =)
btw, Pragma wanna give us some guidelines? like sprite size!? and maybe wut kinda movements you want them to have... O.o
i still got tons of work.... crap!!! one more week till schools over, i can work on a model then...
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-Akute Psyko |
Toshax
Since: 04-30-02
From: US East Coast
Since last post: 8001 days
Last activity: 7936 days
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Pragma ... as long as you let me do a 2d GUI then it's cool =)
and I'll also need some specifics as to what kinda functions/buttons the interface needs. |
pragma7
Since: 04-26-02
From: USA, NJ
Since last post: 7838 days
Last activity: 7851 days
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Well, I'll need your opinions as far as the GUI... I will have a menu system more like Diablo (as in you can access the menu via hot-keys or by pressing the appropriate button. I havn't yet decided if I'll stick with the current windows "popup" gui or create one fashioned along with the game. Appropriately there should be a "menu" bar that will attatch at the bottom of the screen. From here you will have;
Inventory
Status
Skills/Spells
Game Menu (Options, Quit, etc.)
I'm not going to go into more detail untill I actually have some graphics to work with. Don't think I'm just winging this.. The story-line is layed out, The characters, quests, etc. But I'd prefer not to give out too much info on the game yet (any programmers out there will understand).
Rob |
Sironin
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 7941 days
Last activity: 7625 days
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okay, well you can give us stuff to work with without giving away game concepts (I DO understand what you mean).
Here's some helpful guidelines you might want to give your artists:
How many pixels high does each menu have to be? How many items should each menu be able to hold, or should they design individual reusable units? Should they design an entire font and number system? How many pixels high should that be? Varying sizes? what bit and color depth? what format? Would you like several different designs and layouts (Like skins ala winamp, ragnarok, many other things?)? Should it stretch with resolution or scale with resolution or stay the same size and allow for more screen space?
Also about GUI code implementation:
Are you designing the frontend CODE? Did you want menu display functions and direct writing routines in addition to graphical layout? I would assume not, since you say you're doing the majority of the programming end, but I'm trying to lay out all the information.
I hope this helps everyone move forward a little. I'm interested in seeing where this goes. |
pragma7
Since: 04-26-02
From: USA, NJ
Since last post: 7838 days
Last activity: 7851 days
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Ok. For the GUI the size is completely irrelivent, but if you're curious, they will be scaled according to resolution, etc. I would prefer individual re-usable units as you described them. I'll draw up a generic image of the main GUI tonight (after work) to give you an idea of what I'd like. Anyone that plans on helping with the GUI let me know, And I'll either give you the address to view the example, or send it to you directly. Again, I'm very sketchy about giveing out too much info...I've had too many ideas stolen in the past .
Just so you are aware, I am doing all of the developement myself, relying on the dreaded art of COM. For those of you who are aware of what this is, you'll understand why I don't really want other people helping with the initial developement. Upon completion, apointed "builders" or "admins" will be able to make changes VERY easily and on the fly. Very similar to an OLC system for a MUD. Adding a new skill will consist of uploading the animation sequence (I will probably create a developement tool for this, to make it easier), then determine the requirements the player needs to use the skill, when to cue the animation, damage, modifiers, etc. After this, the "admin" will prompt an update. This will pause all players mid-game and upload the "patch" (which is actually a DLL(s), and any media that might be needed). This will not disconnect them, unless the "admin" sees fit to do so. Viola, new skill.
What I hope to accomplish with this is the ability to let ANYONE host a "world" on their server, and It will connect with other worlds respectively. Eventually creating the largest network of MMORPG worlds ever .
Obviously, broadband will almost be a requirement to play this game when it goes full scale .
And eventually the Database will need a dedicated T3, lol.
Hope this gives you some insight...
Rob
EDIT:
Now that I think about it...I could have each server act as a client to the database. Upon entering the server, it will grab infrom from a database server about that player and store it in a temporary location. Upon leaveing that server, it will upload the data back to the database and dump it. Then the next server will pick it up....What do you guys think of this alternative? I still have to test it, but in my head it seams to work ...
(edited by pragma7 on 06-11-02 11:02 AM) |
Sironin
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 7941 days
Last activity: 7625 days
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okay sort of like a master storage database that where ALL characters are stored and then satallite down the characters to each world database each time they move from location to location, then whenever they move to another world or at some designated save time, send data back to the master storage database to for more permanent saving, right?
Sounds like a pretty good idea. From there you'd also be able to back up the master database or use mirrored copies from the world servers if anything ever went wrong. Multiple redundancy is goooooood. ^.^
(admittedly you will want to maintain tight control over WHO hosts worlds and WHO obtains access to the world server program so that corrupted worlds with altered and hacked items/unbalanced stuff doesn't pollute your game universe)
*shudder* COM, I see why you want to keep the coding bit to yourself, COM is tough to work with. I admire though the concept you're working with so far.
Send me the generic GUI and I'll see if I can't whip up something kinda pretty yet modular for you. * sironin@hotmail.com |
MingShun
Since: 05-10-02
Rating: 10 (400 pts)
Since last post: 7415 days
Last activity: 7415 days
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What happens if a client hosting a world goes offline? And how will you protect char information as it transfers from main server to satellites? You may also need to consider how to transfer char information quickly.
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Wish I had a sig pic.... |
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